In many real estate markets some listing agents think they are clever advertising ‘pre-listings', or the latest one I've seen on some yard signs as a rider that says "coming soon!" Upon further investigation, you'll find these listings are not entered into the MLS system. Under most state real estate license boards it is illegal to advertise a property for sale where the listing agreement has not yet been signed. Implied representation is deceptive and fraudulent. For most Realtors® and MLS board members there is an agreement and understanding that all participating brokers will place all their listings into the MLS systems, and do so within a predetermined time-frame which is usually 24-48 hours. The reasoning is obvious; the listing agent will have an unfair advantage in having a listing all to themselves when the listing agreement is predicated on an exclusive right to sell MLS agreement where all members will have an opportunity to sell the listing. Such behavior is referred to as "Pocketing the listing!" Such behavior should be cracked down by the principal broker, and the behavior is totally unethical, and most probably illegal.
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Wow - I have yet to see "coming soon" signs pop up but I am amazed at the amount of emails I recieve with "pocket listing". Also a no-no since no agreement is in place.
We do have listing agreements which allow for the "pocket" listing....but it must be disclosed to all parties. Some of the more expensive homes in our area are this way....the seller likes the idea that the listing agent will bring their own people and not expose the listing to anyone.
I agree with you Jim. Nobody is going to do anything about this issue or several others that I have seen go on. When I see this behavior I try to laugh, shake my head and be thankful that I am not that way and pay attention to my own bobber or I will lose my fish! :O)
PS it does irritate the you know what out of me for just a little while!
Jim,
Could these be bank owned properties? I know that some banks will "assign" an asset to a local borkerage firm to handle the sale before the home is ready to be placed on the open market. The broker may be just trying to create a buzz before he/she is allowed to place on MLS. Just a thought.
Hi Jim,
I know the front desk girls at my office get mad when people start calling from a sign and there is no record of the listing on file. It seems some agents will leave the sign up for a couple of days before handing in the paperwork, just to get sign calls. Not nice but hard to patrol.
There is the other type of "pocket listing". Most of us have clients who are "thinking" of selling and they always say, if you know of anyone who may be interested let me know. Sometimes when agents in our office are chit chatting someone will say they have buyers but can't find them anything. Often times a deal will be put together this way, without ever having the listing go MLS.
Our MLS allows a listing to not be entered on the MLS as long as the seller signs a piece of paper stating they don't want it on the MLS or requesting a change to the 48 hour requirement. We aren't a REALTOR required MLS though so some our of rules may be different than other areas.
Either way, the listing agent can't put up a sign without the listing agreement.
I guess I will play the other side just for fun.....if it says coming soon, is it for sale and in need of being in MLS? For sale and soon to be for sale are two different things. Not much different than the REO property with a notice saying who to contact with questions before the property is actually for sale.
In reality it is deceptive, I do agree with you Jim, it is not good behavior and needs to be addressed by the broker
I will premarket some of my REO listings before they are on the MLS (but I have permission to do so) it really has worked out for me as I typically will have agents waiting to write contracts, as soon as it goes on the market..makes me look good to my AM.. :)
Victoria Murphy ~ Santa Fe, NM (Santa Fe Properties) It is kind of scary when you think about it. The real estate community seems to be numb on any action. It is a clear violation of most MLS rules.
Karen Parsons-Fiddler (Great Western Realty Group) I have no problem with that idea. Well the idea is that the "Exclusive Right to Sell" as used in MLS benefits the sellers more by exposing the listing to a great audience of potential home buyers.
June Tassillo Your Go to Girl & Realtor for Life! (Classic GMAC Real Estate - Franklin, NC 28734) The scary thing is that I called an agent the other day about a deal on the property. She had no clue whatsoever she was doing. I had cash buyer, and she had a sign in the ground, but no permission to show the home. Her loss, and the seller's loss! My buyer said "Next!"
Thom Kraley (NewCastle Home Loans, LLC) No, these are not bank owned. I could at least understand that. This is just greed and stupidity. Nothing else.
Jenny Kotulak Real Estate Broker Oakville Ontario Real Estate (RE/MAX Aboutowne Realty Corp. Brokerage Oakville, Ontario) In good times, I have sold many homes without another agent...just because we had that many buyer clients in the pipeline.
Melina Tomson, M.S. Salem Oregon Real Estate Specialist (Tomson Burnham, llc) I know of agents in the Atlanta area that received 'cease and desists' a few years back for placing signage on FSBO properties without listing agreements. If something is allowed, I have no problem with it. I obey the rules.
Jeff Payne, Real Estate in Panama City, FL (The Payne Group at Keller Williams Success Realty) I think out of desperation, brokers are looking the other way.
Konnie MAC, RDCpro (Konnie McKee ) I can at least understand bank properties, and REOs...they are in a unique position. I do have a problem with regular sales.
As the broker this is absolutley unacceptable behaviour! No sign should be on a property unless it's for sale and in the MLS system. I do see this around town but I'm not sure if they're brokers are aware of this going on.
We can have "pocket-listings." However there are some agents that put the house on the MLS and state no showings for "X" amount of days. When the market was hot, those "X" amount of days made a huge difference because it gave the listing agent just enough time to sell it on their own and take both sides of the commission.
Jim we had this discussion earlier this week in our office. We could all name agents who are infamous for "coming soon" listings that end up in the MLS under contract with zero days on the market. Our broker says we have the 48 hour window as allowed in our listing agreement and you can always have your clients sign an exclusive listing which would mean it never has to end up in the MLS. Of course that isn't what agents are doing but unless you report it who is ever going to stop the practice?
Jim, I guess it would depend on the listing agreement. Sellers can opt out of the MLS and a listing agreement can be verbal. So this may not be unethical or illegal. Of course I agree there is no benefit to the sellers UNLESS there is a variable commission.
Aw shucks. I see it all the time and have for years. Many agents in my area will do anything they can to get both sides. The rules are clear that the sign is not permitted until the home is entered in the MLS and available to show.
I love the new listings with agent remarks "First showing (2 week)". Home owner making minor repairs.
Year, right!!
Call the listing agent and you'll get an appointment to view.
As Bryant said in #20 above, Sellers can agree to opt out from the MLS for a period of time (or altogether).
A Broker may advertise "Coming Soon" with the express authorization of the Seller and therefore not be acting unethically.
This stuff has been going on since agents started thinking of MLS as "just a marketing tool" instead of an agreement to co-broke and honor the other rules spelled out in the contract we sign with the MLS. I find that many agents are proud of the ways they can "work around" the rules. You can spend alot of time "policing" this or just know that we "know" who you are!
Jim,
We see this quite frequently from a certain company in town: "Coming soon". I even had an agent call me who had his listing up for 2 weeks like this. I put a home on just down the street, had 2 realtor tours through and got an offer in 7 days. He called me and wanted to know why his listing did not sell. I told him probably because he didn't have it in the MLS so agents could know about it and bring him an offer!! He said the seller was getting some repairs done yada yada..
Jim, I have seen those coming soon signs for year although not so much latelty. I also remember that many Commissions and Boards were slow to grasp internet marketing where agents would do the internet version of a hip pocket, by marketing it there with no intention of putting it into the MLS. Too many times I have heard Brokers say, we can't complain because we might be doing business with them in the future, and that is wrong. Our MLS is working on a way to report via the web in an anonymous fashion so they have no fear of reprisal. We need to police ourselves.
Jim - That is pretty amazing in regards to those types of signs ! I have never seen them. I do know in the past when the market was super hot this activity happened more often where agents would take longer to put it into the MLS. When we get a new listing, we try to put it in the same day as we want to maximize the marketing from the very first day of the listing ! In any event, when an agent holds back on the listing (unless agreed upon with the seller) it is quite unethical indeed !
Jim, Can you spell huge fine. My MLS will make it so your lucky to see a referral fee from such conduct.
I sometimes get my listings in the MLS before the sign goes up! Our MLS gives you 48 hours to get a listing in the MLS.
We have seen this -- signs in the yard and such -- not so much though.
Unethical behavior is all around us and your blog is a great reminder.
I recently signed a listing agreement, but the owners wanted a couple of weeks to paint the house and to clean things up, so they agreed to withhold placing it on the MLS until they were finished with the repairs, but they did agree for me to let our agents know of this "pocket lisitng" that was coming to market soon.
I also have almost the same situation with a client with a vacant condo that they were completely renovating. We were not yet prepared to put it on the MLS but my client and I decided to again let my office agents know about this "pocket listing" as several other units in the building had just been listed. I had a signed listing agreement as well as waiver signed by my client to delay placing it on the MLS.
I do pre market my REOs and the sign lets other agents know the property will be coming on the market. They can call me and get specifics on the property plus my required notices have already been posted on the property, no trespass, soon to be for sale, etc and everyone gets a fair shot to sell it.
Believe it or not but I have had agents ask if I would let them submit an offer and keep others away so their client will be the only one.
I see this also happens a lot with REO listings. The lead time to list is longer while getting the home cleaned out and priced. It is a time that the listing agent has to themselves since it is not owner occupied to line up their own buyers for the sneak preview that no one else has the privilage of, prior to going on market.
Right you are, Jim. Behaviour like this is why the real estate profession is still lumped into the "used car salesman" category in many areas. Makes me crazy. I take my job so very seriously and I am appalled by my cohorts (and I use that term loosely) who profess to be ethical, but use their own definitions of marketing and the market to benefit themselves. Oh, just so don't get me started. You know who you are people!
Anna 'Banana' Kruchten, Anna Banana Realty, Phoenix AZ I agree it is very unacceptable behavior. Brokers really need to be more involved in what their agents are doing.
Michelle Gibson Wellington Florida Real Estate (Hansen Real Estate Group) In our board if it is 'ACTVE" it must be available to be shown...if not withdraw it!
Cindy Jones-Northern Virginia Real Estate & Military Relocation Services (RE/MAX Allegiance #1 RE/MAX Company in the World) That is the way it is supposed to be...I first saw the 'coming soon' sign in Virginia. I have not yet seen it in Atlanta yet. What we see here is listings that are showing active and are really under contract. That is very annoying.
Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc You are right, it depends on contracts, but also state license law. In Georgia, no verbal agreements are allowed, and members of the MLS are not allowed to take "Exclusive Listings." It defeats the entire purpose of having an MLS.
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate Lenn you are so right. However, I think we are blessed in Atlanta that we can have these listings yanked that say..."Don't show for 2 weeks...!"
Jim...
I would report them to the MLS and let them handle it!
Stewart Penn - Los Angeles Condo Specialist (Penn Properties) Stewart taht is fine and totally acceptable. If state law and local MLS boards permit it ...that is fine. It is not allowed in GA to advertise with out a signed listing agreement, and it is not allowed in most MLS boards... a person is eather a member abiding by the rules or they are not.
SarahGray Lamm ~REALTOR Broker~ 60K Hours of NC Real Estate Experience~ (Allen Tate Realtors Chapel Hill, NC) In our area all it takes is one phone call or an email complaint to have the offender questioned on the listing or behavior. A lot of this only happens because not one wants to get involved. Some agents think they are creative, and others view them as criminal.
Dorie Dillard: Canyon Creek & NW Austin Living (Coldwell Banker United) Now that you mention it, I only saw this rider coming soon on one companies listings.
Christopher and Stephanie Somers - Realtors - Philadelphia Real Estate (Owner - RE/MAX Affiliates) When we take a new listing is is blasted onto the Internet with fulll photos, and a virtual tour and Craigslist...yada yada... It still sells in a short time. I guess some agents are just greedy!
Usually they pocket the listings here to sell it to a friend of theirs. Thats the way it works here in Detroit area
In our area, REO agents started putting signs in the yard advertising it as a foreclosure. I had a client call up asking about a sign she had seen. I looked it up in the MLS and there was nothing...so I told her it must be coming soon and that I would keep an eye on it. Next day she calls me up - she contacted the agent on the sign and setup an appointment to see it! So we said we would meet them at that time...and we did. Here the agent had been showing it to people, already had one contract offer on it, and was expecting two more. I asked her what the price was...drum roll...she said they did not have a price yet, the bank had not decided! So here she is placing her signs in upcoming REO listings getting all of the sign calls, showing to select individuals without even having a price agreed upon...which means there can not be a listing agreement in our state. I foresee that as a growing trend in the REO industry.
Jim - I never seen a coming soon sign in our area. I do believe that our local MLS requires we have it in the MLS within 24 hours.
It happens all the time and we even have one that does this for the first month. I am surprised that we have this going on all over the place.
Jimmy Mulhern (The Mulhern Home Team - RE/MAX Premier) That is really dirty pool! All they are trying to do is double dip!
Here is the best part - and it will happen soon enough - legal counsel in our state has advised us to no longer accept dual agency agreements. All it will take is a double dipper to screw one thing up and they will pay the price. Besides, there is a very negative viewpoint from the client in a double dip situation. I have heard more people bad mouth an agent over that approach and then question their loyalty - once you have your ethics questioned in the court of public opinion you are toast!
Hi Jim~ I have to agree with you. It IS very frustrating to see this happening! It really makes you wonder what is really going on??
As a Broker, I would highly discourage this from being practiced here. What's to keep the seller from going around the agent, prior to the listing date? A pocket listing is not something to be advertised prior to listing.
So true, I've seen this happen more often than you think, unfortunately. I'm sure it goes on often.
Patricia
I know of an agent that had 3 open houses on 1 street and I knew he had listed 2 of them. I saw the signs at all three properties. I spoke to him that a.m. and he said he was getting a 3rd listing. Now 4 weeks later, there has been no 3rd listing on that street entered into the MLS. I was suspicous at the time and your rationale makes sense to me. I don't like it when people don't play by the rules.
Hi Jim,
I have worked with many REO companies in the past...I am not right now. I stopped over 1 1/2 years ago because of the excessive hoops and paperwork they demand. Most are unlicensed clowns that have no idea what they are doing. They requested signs be put up immediately and yes...it would take weeks if not months to get a listing price. That happened in our town with a late Re/Max broker who worked on many many repos until his untimely death this winter. He had a listing that went from early fall until spring without a price. It is now closed and lived in but what a mess the house became being vacant and unattended for so long. (He could not find anyone to mow or do snow so I did it for him in my spare time.)
With this kind of behavior, MLS has a chance to become another dirty database. It's an agreement and it's good for participants to remember that you can not just violate the rules. Great post!
While I don't like pocket listings, if a listing agreement is signed, a coming soon sign is legal (at least in Ohio) if the home is being readied for market, provided the Exclusive Right to Sell says the property is not going into the MLS until mm/dd/yy.
Jim: I do practice the COMING SOON sign riders... Of course I DO have a signed listing agreement on file before the sign ever goes up. These are only for a short period of time as the home owner may be finnishing minor repairs or just packing to leave. Now for the coming soon, the listing agreement is dated for a future date. During this time, there are NO SHOWINGS.
Great Article! I've seen those signs becoming more and more popular.
More bizarre is the sign going in the ground 5 days before closing. No...pocket listing there.
Mike McCann - Unfortunately we are dealing with more foreclosures in each of our markets these days and they have become the new norm. We must not let this become so for our regular business.
Roland Woodworth "Clarksville-Fort Campbell Area Realtor" (Exit Realty Clarksville) - Thank you for your explanation, but does your MLS require a listing be placed in the MLS within "X" amount of hours?
Jim,
The worst violator of this is within my own company. Her team handles only foreclosures. Her sign will be in a yard WEEKS before the property shows up on the MLS. The excuse when you call is that they are getting the property ready and waiting for the info from the bank...
Yes...you are absolutely correct. Our MLS does have those rules and agents have been reported and fined. Otherwise, agents must use Exclusive Agency instead, and never post in MLS.
This has been a pet peeve for both myself and my best friend and fellow Agent. We have received very ambiguous response when we have brought it up with GCAAR board council. AF
Jim,
I actually have "pocket listings" but, that is only out of the request of the sellers. Usually it is family owned farms and large holdings that are in rural areas. They do not wish to A) have their privacy violated by people constantly driving by, or by numerous agents calling and the listing service making appointments. They do not want it to be advertised not even in the MLS. It is just if I find a buyer and they can qualify then I bring them out myself, or accompany the buyer's agent and buyer to the property.
Pocket listings are usually alot more common in the commercial side anyway.
Good post. I have never put a "coming soon" sign out; but there are times when I may take a listing with a post-dated listing agreement. We may have reasons not to enter it in the MLS immediately (most likely because repairs are being done and we want it to be in top showing condition before the co-op agents begin to show it). However, rather than do nothing, I might send out a blast email or announce it at my weekly agent team meeting in case there is a co-op agent out there with an appropriate buyer that we don't want to miss out on. In these circumstances, I believe it is an ethical practice as long as the MO is not to try to avoid cooperating with other brokers and is for the client's best interest.
Hello Jim
In our area, Memphis, we have some infamous agents who mostly sell foreclosed homes. Their trick is to place that actual for sale sign in the yard, without placing the listing in the MLS. I have questioned both the agents and our local board about this practice. The agent's excuse is that he is doing that to help the subcontractors find the home, as if they were unable to read street numbers. We all know this to be unethical behavior just so they can sell both sides of the foreclosed properties. When I asked the local board, if you can believe this, they told me that there is no by-law or guideling that prohibits them from putting up their sign without the listing being in the MLS. None of this makes good sense to me at all.
Don DeBaer
Crye Leike Memphis
To Lenn's #20, our MLS states that if the listing is on MLS, it MUST be able to be shown within 48 hours.
Couldn't agree more. IF the seller really thought about it, it is not helping their sale at all. By putting listings on the MLS, one opens u[p a sales force of many (in my area, that would be ~18,000 agents) to sell that house.
I hate the practice of "Coming Soon".
Since MLS rules require us to place the listing on the MLS withing a certain timeframe from taking the listing, is it possible that we could knock on the Seller's door, and present our services? This is under the presumption that there is no listing agreement in place, sa I would assume all agents abide by the MLS Rules, and therefore, I would assume there is no contract between agent and seller...
Agents, you are not doing your clients any favors by this practice, and clients should be made aware of this. Of course, the only reason an agent does this is to try and double end it...
Just had an agent tell me he had a pocket listing yesterday when I asked him if he had any good deals in this particular community. I asked him to provide a commission agreement to me before I showed it. He wouldn't do it and you know what his reply was? Don't you trust me? Please
Comeing soon does not mean there is no contract signed. If the listing agreement is in place with a later start date, pre advertising is fine and legal.
Ours is 3 days to get in the MLS unless otherwise specified in the listing agreement.
IE: to be put in MLS by such and such date following repairs or whatever. I have had sellers who wanted to sign the listing agreement but were not ready to have it shown and on MLS yet. I have not put up a sign until it is in the MLS though. I have let other agents in my office know that a home is coming on, after I have a listing agreement in place.
If you neither like the idea, or have been burned by this "pocket listing" behavior, the solution is simple - - self-governance! Real estate brokers and agents are not only held to stringent technical standards as to how to conduct their business, but they are held to certain ethical standards as well. Any breach of either the technical or ethical standards should be brought to the attention of the State agency which governs the conduct of persons in the real estate industry. Having to answer to a complaint lodged against you for a breach of conduct will have a lasting effect on anyone who feels it necessary to take advantage of a situation in a dishonest way. Let's act like the professionals that you are, with full disclosure, and following the same rules that the industry mandates!
I don't usually weigh in on threads but I am on this one.
Signs and MLS listings are all driven by the agreement. If the Seller signs a commission agreement, the property can be marketed without putting it in the MLS. The same is true for an Exclusive Right to Sell if the Seller opts out of the MLS by agreement with the Listing Agent.
Marketing the property through the MLS is for the Seller's benefit, not the agent. Cooperative listings give more exposure which is generally the reason for listing the property with a real estate agent in the first place.
Pocket listings were the first form of listings that brokers had because they carried the information in their pockets and the MLS was fully manual.
I have persona experience with Seller's who want to "try" the market and not enter the property in the MLS.
As I stated earlier, it's all driven by the terms of the agreement between the Seller and the Broker.
That is scary. We would lose our license in NC for doing something like that.
Ginger
Yes, this does not seem to be the right thing to do in our area. I have not heard of this. will have to give it further investigation. thanks for opening our eyes to this situation! nice blog.
The ability to 'pocket' a listing when fully disclosed is in no way unethical, or illegal. This is a way for Realtors who have worked diligently to secure a listing a small window in which to introduce their own buyers to the property. Many of my sellers do not wish to have their homes out on the open market, and prefer to have only quality pre-screened individuals viewing their homes. This outrage is completely unwarranted, unless you can pinpoint Realtors in your own area that are doing this fraudulently.
Come now,if the seller is ok with this-a pocket listing is fine
Mark is correct.Why the outrage??I see no reason this is a violation.Disclosure is the key element.I am surprised at the suggestion that this is unethical.
Just my .02. I would think that because a Listing agent is suppose to have the Sellers best interest in mind, And this means presenting the property to all potential agents in an attempt to recieve the best and highest offer. The only justification that I can see is if during the Pocket Listing Period, the Seller was offerred a concession as to the comissions or some other item of value.
Again, just my .02
Placing for sale signs in yards where the listing agreement is not signed is not just unethical, but in NC, illegal. In our MLS, members MUST put in property located within our Territorial Jurisdiction within 72 hours -- with the exception of those sellers who opt-out of MLS (provided for in MLS agreement) or what's known as "Office Exclusive."
Listing agreements cannot be verbal, they must be in writing, adhering to fundamentals of contract law. Beginning, end, etc. Oral contracts are legal, but not binding. MLS requires binding.
No such thing as "coming soon" -- you either have a listing agreement or you don't -- and it matters not whether your seller is a bank or a buddhist.
Telling everyone in your office you have a post-dated listing agreement is one thing, but sending an email blast to other companies is advertising. It may not technically illegal, but will draw disdain and disrespect from your fellow realtors. the REALTOR COE is the golden rule, people.
It is really unfortunate that there are still agents who work for themselves and NOT their clients. It gives all of us a bad name.
Along the same lines as pocket listings is "no showings until Sunday open house" and "buyer agent must accompany first showing". How many clients can we take out between 1 and 4 on Sunday afternoon?
These tactics are all designed for the agent to double dip - again, agents working for themselves, not their clients and the MLSs that we pay so much to belong to don't do anything about it.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE SELLER HAS THE RIGHT TO DECIDE A POCKET LISTING WITH HIS/HER AGENT.HOW IS THIS UNETHICAL-AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?
We are required to enter a listing in the MLS within 72 hours. My brokerage has an "exclusive preview" program for buyers. The buyers register the area and specifics on the house they are looking for on our website. These buyers are sent an emails describing properties that fit their requirements and are told they have xx (seller's choice) hours before the listing is offered in the MLS. The buyers are encouraged to contact their agent (if they have one) to set up an appointment to see the property. Sellers who choose to take advantage of this program sign a document stating that they would like to be witheld from the MLS until a certain date. Many REALTORS sign up on our program so that they receive these notifications.
This is a win/win for both sellers and buyers! One of my recent sellers took advantage of this program. Emails were sent to over 1000 registered buyers & agents! This also gives us time to get the professional photographs taken and sent to our database so that when we do go live in the MLS all of the pictures are there. BTW - these same sellers have chosen NO dual agency. They chose this option after I explained agency in detail. I do not put "coming soon" riders on signs. Self serving?
Sellers can "decide" anything they want but they don't necessary understand how everything works. We are supposed to be the professionals!
Surprised to see it has taken so long for that sign rider to appear in the Atlanta Georgia area.
Has been going on here in the Fredericksburg Virginia area for years.
It is a violation of the local MLS rules unless the owner directs it to be done.
Am not sure that you could bring an ethics complaint against the agent in that case since he is acting on the direction(s) of the property owner. Would be a good test case though.
Hope things are going well down there in the Atlanta Georgia area.
You sure generated lots of responses. I guess that was your goal! Some sellers don't want there homes listed in the MLS and give you an exclusive right of sale listing. To say that a pocket listing when the seller doesn't want it in the MLS is unethical is ridiculous. If you market the property and at a later time the seller does opt in to the MLS that's ok too.
If the seller does want the property listed in the MLS then it must be entered by the listing agent within 48 hours.
To Active Rain, posts like this only infuriate people; I wish there were some way to stop posts such as the one that was responsible for so many responses, especially when they are as silly as this one. I guess it makes for action on the blog site.
Click here for more information about the Florida Keys Real Estate Market and to view some of our pocket listings.
POCKET LISTINGS HAS ITS PLACE AND IT IS PERFECTLY REASONABLE FOR A SELLER AND HER PROFESSIONAL AGENT TO DECIDE ON MARKETING STRATEGY.NAN IS RIGHT ON IN HER EXPLANATIONSOMETIMES,WE DONT GIVE OUR CLIENTS ENOUGH CREDIT.
Hi Jim, I have to say something about your use of the offensive term "double dipping" which implies being paid twice. Frankly, there is no such thing, When an agents lists a property they are entitled to the whole commission, we agree to share with another broker.
Here in our little community in WV many of our friends and neighbors will tell me they will sell their home/property. they don't want to sign an agreement but if I bring them a buyer they will pay a commission which we agree on. Sometimes a handshake and a persons word is good still today!
I don't call it a contract or listing, and sure would not put a sign in the yard. But when I get a potiential buyer I will call the owner to make the appointment and if things get serious towards a purchase I will have them sign a (contract) listing and sales at that time. It may take a little longer to sale with just me knowing about it but you don't have a lot of time, energy or advertising involved and you get whatever commission you agree to. I like them, sellers like them especially in an active market! Nothing illegal or unethical. Many agencies here don't belong or want to be a part of MLS rules. If you have a listing signed and are a part of the MLS and you don't post if for weeks then that is a problem. I say "here's to pocket listings". TJ
The mutual sharing of residential listings is one of the basic tenets of RMLS. Without a high degree of conformity to this rule, the system wouldn't work.
For the commercial folks a little different approach is used. Some clients will sign a fee agreement with the understanding that the broker will contact his list of investors and fellow commercial brokers to gage market value. The client's expectation is that the broker will keep the knowledge of the asset's availablitiy away from the general public. the reason for this is that some investors will only purchase "off market" or pocket listing deals. They eschew product that has been on RMLS or Loopnet.
For a house listing having everyone know its on the market improves the ability to get your client the best offer. Contrastingly, if all the tenants know that an apartment is being sold, they will move out in droves, making the asset ineligible for a loan...rendering it unsaleable.
While my focus is commercial multifamily...I am asked from time to time to help a friend out on a SFR sale...in which case I would always conform list immediately.
Jim, so many people responded. Wow! Ethical, unethical.... legal, illegal...
It is all about plain old greed. Greedy will look and find ways to get it all. Your opinion, unfortunately, will not be considered by these people, Even if they will be fined or put on notice... Can greedy thus unethical one suddenly become generous and ethical? People don't change. so public opinion about us.
MLS/MRIS rules/policies are not negotiable items. A seller cannot verbally or in writing ask you to do anything that violates your MLS/MRIS policy, well they can, but your agreement with your MLS is strictly between you and your MLS/MRIS, not your client and MLS/MRIS. It is no different than your client asking you to do something illegal. You have a fiduciary responsibility to them, but you do not have to obey them if it causes you to be in any kind of violation of rules or laws. In MRIS, even comment in remarks does not relieve the agent of the responsibility to abide by policy.
Nazarro, go back and read the original statement. No one's saying that a pocket listing, or an "office exclusive," when directed by the seller, is unethical. Nobody. The point is, advertising a listing that isn't in the MLS yet, for which you don't have a listing agreement signed, is both unethical and illegal.
i may have a different concept of Pocket Listing. i always considered them to be properties that i am aware of as being available, but not listed formally. after a few years in the trade every agent has a few of these. a sign in the yard is not a pocket listing.
in this instance we're discussing an entirely different animal, and excepting the rare cases where a client has instructed that a property be withheld from the MLS, i have to agree with you that the practice is solely for the benefit of the listing agent. if your clients need two weeks to paint then they are premature.
the fact that it's an REO is immaterial. if you look at the closing stats for REO listings (i have not) i will bet that you see an inordinate number of double ended deals. if my clients learn that a property is available preferentially to the clients of a REO listing agency, they will enticed to make contact directly. can see where i have a problem with that?
during the heated sellers market a few years ago many listing agents were encourageing their clients to instruct them to withhold publishing in the MLS. this practice got to be SO BAD in the Palmdale/Antelope Valley area that the GAVAR board enacted new and very clear rules that the instruction from the seller to withhold was to granted only in very exceptional cases and then WITHOUT the suggestion of the agent.
unless the parties doing this are brought before the local boards, there will be no change. it may be that the rule on withholding broadcast needs to be revised to eliminate the abuses...there is model language at the Greater Antelope Valley. this is an area that can easily be gamed and all listing agents, REO or otherwise, need to be held to the same standard.
a condition of membership in the MLS is that your listings WILL be entered...sellers instruction excepted. the MLS is our VOLUNTARY co-op marketing tool. IF YOU PREFER TO DEAL OUTSIDE THE MLS AND THINK THAT YOUR CLIENTS WILL BE OKAY WITH THAT, FINE...RESIGN and you'll have no issues such as this to confront you. we have a code of ethics to help us have a whip hand over those of you who see no problem here. if your mom and pop didn't instill them, we will. repeat after me...not just the letter, the spirit as well.
Hi Jim, There's a lot of this going on. In Sacramento, I see these signs often "coming soon," so yes, it is an issue that our MLS doesn't allow but these agents keep doing it. Along these same lines, I think many of the REO agents are not turning in offers in a timely manner in hopes of selling the house themselves. I've just had too many full price offers where I have not ever heard back or gotten so much as a rejection.
Thanks for bringing this to the light. These are the agents who won't survive when this wild ride is over.
Tamara
MLS is not the only regulatory body for real estate agents. There is a Real Estate Commission in every state I presume, and in many cases these agents actions may be violations of real estate law. In the case of a non REALTOR, they still are required to obey real estate law over the instructions of a client.
Right, wrong or indifferent it is perfectly legal with a signed contract and an MLS exclusion. Right now the practice is being used widely with REO. We have to schmooze REO brokers to get their pre-market listings and Freddie Mac even has one.
There is nothing wrong with this as sometimes the occupant is not out yet or there are hazards in the house or a trash out needs to be performed.
Right now it is prevalent here so if I get upset about it I may just well quit :)
Pocket listing activity has always bugged me, but I must be naive because I didn't realize that the "coming soon" phenomenon was a double-ending ploy . . . it also never occurred to me that the comments in the MLS saying "cannot be shown until "x" date," or the fact that some listing agents don't give floor agents info on a new listing were anything devious. I thought "coming soon" was marketing hype, period. Good points have been raised here. Thank you!
I am in shock reading some of the responses to this blog. I have been saying this for years that un til we ACT like and BE the professionals we are supposed to be, all the Realtor ads are a total waste of time and money!! It is alarming how a lot of agents do not take the time to learn about what the rules are for what we do, but make up their own as they go along. It is even more alarming to see how greedy some agents can be. The good book talks about the "love of money" and that is what the driving force is behind some of the unethical behaviors we see in the Real Estate indusrty. The other force is trying to create a 'resume' of being something they are not for accolades or awards. Do not think for one minute that the general public is not aware of what is going on here! Hence the reason for the negative review for our industry. It is very sad and disheartening for those of us who actually take what we do seriously. I believe the industry needs to get a serious overall but it will not happen when even those who are supposed to govern, the boards and the brokers, do not take the time or are too "busy" to care. Here in NJ, we deal with a lot of stuff. One thing I see a lot is, some offices will place the property in the MLS but do not expect them to call you back with any info or showing appointment info. I just wonder how people can get so twisted and walk around looking at themselves in the mirror everyday. What keeps me focused is knowing that life is too short and I MUST do what I know is right despite what everyone else is doing.
I work with many realtors and I would like to make it clear that I’m not including a large majority of realtors in my following comments. Unethical dealings seems to be a big problem these days – especially dealing with short sale listings. Out here in California (as I'm sure this is happening everywhere else also) a lot of the larger realtor broker offices may have 100+ listings and offers get submitted and submitted and nobody ever hears back from the listing agent! Then a few times we noticed on the MLS the property was sold for less and by who?........you guessed it, the listing broker! This is happening a lot these days and is totally unethical. The system is pathetic. When an realtor submits an offer to the listing broker there's no "checks and balances" that their offer was ever received, submitted and even taken into consideration. The listing broker now finds their own client for the property and keeps the total 6% commission instead of splitting the commission with the buyer’s agent. My experience with this has been from work and my wife worked at a large realty broker office here in California and they have a very bad reputation for this nonsense. (she left the company)
The problem with the system is the listing broker has ALL the power in the transaction. If an agent submits an offer to the listing broker and he/she “ignores” the offer (to bring in their own buyer and get the total commission) this effects the buyer, the seller, the buyer’s agent and the loan officer. CAR (California Association of Realtors) seems to be ridiculously unaware of this problem, yet they have lost literally thousands of agents in the last recent years mostly because of the lack of checks and balances in the system. After awhile of submitting constant offers and driving clients to numerous properties with no accepted offers and not making any money they are literally forced out of the business to find a job they can actually make a living from. When it costs each realtor upwards of $500.00 to renew their membership and MLS each year, CAR is literally losing hundreds of thousands of dollars!!
I have 3+ clients that wrote 15+ offers and they never heard back on any of the offers. They were all very qualified buyers. They decided to give up looking for a home for a while. I have 25+ qualified clients also looking for properties - they keep submitting offers and still waiting for an accepted offer! I am now directing a lot of my buyers to new homes sales because the builder is more than happy to write up the offer and take the clients deposit. The extra $10k to buy a new home in California is another incentive for them as well.
Gerard Ladalardo, CMPS
www.caloanpros.com
What will it take for the agents to have more faith in the market? That's the big question! I know "pocket listing" Realtors and honestly feel that they are doing the worst service for the seller. As one REO Realtor told me, he prices below to generate the true market price. His listings statistically price out 120% above list on selling. That's market working. Getting people excited again. Of course, if the Realtors for the buyers need to forwarn them that the market price is there to generate highest and best price.
If the house isn't ready for the market, it isn't ready for anyone! Oh, all they have to have the house decluttered, painted and finished? So let someone in who will take the awful condition in concern to price? What's better for the house and the market?
Let's be honest folks. The house that's a pocket is not in the market and sign calls, or showing by listing agent only is a huge no = no. Let's have faith and trust in the market to figure it out, get us back to healthy without incentives, without intervention. It's time! Historically when we have the huge intervention, the manipulation of sound business practices, the real estate market will suffer, our livelihoods suffer, and the market doesn't have a chance. Sorry got on my soap box. Leave my market alone so it will find a solid base.
Jim,
Good post ! The games that our competitors play, hopefully the Broker's of these offenders will act swiftly to discipline them.
Pocket listings, exclusive listings benefit no-one!
I never put a sign up unless the listing is in the MLS first. Out of respect to the co-op agents. Some times I wait 2 days before I put the sign up. All the best buyers are working with a professional agents.
I would rather be a listing agent than a disclosed dual agent.
I have seen recently a home with an under contract sign in the yard but it is not in the MLS. HUH?
Unethical behavior needs to be stomped out! It only makes it harder on the honest & ethical.
Gerard explained just the point I wanted to make. We see the seem "creative" selling techniques right here under our noses.
What do you think of this one? Approaching a landlord around the time a lease would expire and tell them that they have a possible buyer. Agent shows up with another agent "the buyer" and the landlord doesn't renew the lease. You think you have seen it all.
I applaud your post: IT IS TIME WE MAKE A POSITIVE CHANGE.
If we don't police ourselves, then we are just as responsible.
I have been complaining about practices and realized I was not being heard so now I am trying to work my way "INTO" the organization so that if those already in the organization are not being heard or don't care, then at least I will.
If we complain loud enough and if we start taking responsibility for our actions and others then the wave of change will occur.
Maybe not overnight, but hopefully soon enough to matter.
Due to our Code Of Ethics, we appear as one
This is because we can not say anything bad or negative about another agent...... There is a serious problem with this. If we can not call out another agent, then who will correct it?
We all know some homeowners who are thinking of selling, who have said 'if you hear of someone looking for my type of home, give me a call' - I recently wrote an offer on one of those - but I did tell the owners that it is in their best interests to get it on the market and expose it to as many agents/buyers as possible. After reading this post, I am thinking that next time I will have the seller sign a disclosure that I have told them that.
We do this all the time in my market. Coming soon signs are very common and I don't see ANY issues with it. We do have a listing agreement and also and form that allows us to keep it off of the MLS for any amount of time we specify while the home is "being prepared" for sale.
I don't know of a single agent that doesn't put up a coming soon sign and then advertise the house to the neighbors, craigslist etc. etc.
And if we do find a buyer before the home is on the MLS, you just give it to another agent in the office to write up, and pay them a fee for writing the contract.
I'm absolutely shocked that there are people around the country that apparently think this is wrong.
The answer to this issue is to go out and get your own listings!!!!!!!
My client is looking for mobile home parks for sale. She found several listings in Craigslist placed by a Realtor. I have not been able to find them in MLS, is this legal or ethical and how do I know what the commission structure is before placing an offer for my client?
renee, comment 125,
YOU don't quit, the PARTIES doing this quit. it's your listings and use of the MLS that makes it the marketing sledgehammer it is. your timely compliance with it's rules makes the data useful and reliable to the other subscribers. someday the rest of the world will have a tool as powerful as our MLS. the internet wishes it could be as thorough, timely and accurate.
the MLS is a voluntary membership association. for anyone's client to learn that THERE ARE other sources of listings...an REO agent...STOMPS on the agreement we all adhere to that the database will be thorough and accurate to the best of our ability. for those whose business plan is incompatible with this CORE ELEMENT of the MLS the choice is easy, withdraw from membership.
my suggestion to remedy the problem is to revise the exclusion rule to make all exclusions for limited specific reasons and for limited times. this is clearly a problem that has ramifications for all subscribers.
pre-marketing? what the $%#@ is pre-marketing? it's on the market or not. if not...lose the sign.
the new realities of the business force changes to the MLS all the time. recently we had a change here regarding the classification of homes under contract but in the short sale process. they are now required to be classed as "pending" so that the subscribers and their clients would be able to accurately deterrmine what is or is not available for sale and on what terms.
the fact that fannie or freddie have requirements is of no concern. they are not subscribers and have no say in this.
This is interesting, as in California the client can decide whether the listing will be on MLS. I'll have to check on this as my client requested a 'coming soon' sign prior to hitting the MLS and my broker had no objections. I did have a signed agreement with the client, we were just figuring out when he could get some repairs done before hitting the MLS. Thanks for the post.
This has been a hot topic in Lee County Florida as the banks are directing in writing that the listing agent go ahead and place a sign in the yard to start "pre-marketing" the property. This is done while they are still working on an asking price so not only is the sign up, the listing price is an unknown. A friend and I searched the laws and code of ethics and the only thing we have come up with is that you must follow the directions of your client even prior to the listing agreement being signed - we can not find anything showing it is against the law. I find it very frustrating as the listing agent already has a list of interested buyers to call as soon as the bank decides on the listing price. This usually results in the property having offers coming in the day of it becoming an active listing so by the time it hits MLS it is too late. Not fair but seems to be legal.
This is a craigslist ad I ran across today from a well known Realtor.
3br - Contact me about this AVENUES home BEFORE it comes on the market! (The Avenues Cayce/West Columbia)
Reply to: pocketlisting at agent.dummy
Date: 2009-06-26, 10:58AM EDT
I have gotten permission from the sellers to allow you to know about this home before it comes on the market. 3 Bedrooms 2 Full baths seconds from Brooklyn Cayce High. If you would like exclusive information about this home please email Agent @pocketlisting .net . I would love to help you purchase your next Avenues dream home.
First of all- we need to clarify the difference between MLS RULES and STATE STATUTES and then NAR ETHICS and STANDARD OF PRACTISE.
I will speak to Florida only as that is where I am currently licensed. I really need to do this in a post but here goes:
We do commission agreements all the time for large land assemblages, redevelopment projects, residential bulk sales and very exclusive sellers who do not want their listing in the mls. There is nothing unethical or illegal about this practice.
We have sold homes by connecting two individuals together many times and that never goes into the mls nor is there any rule or law that states that it has to.
There are many Licensed Real estate agents and brokers that are NOT members of the MLS nor the NAR. Those entities have NO jurisdiction or authority over these agents and brokers nor should they.
Unfair advantage? What law is there in any state that actually cares about real estate agents being fair to one another? NONE that I know of. State Real Estate Statutes are to protect the consumers not the agents.
In many areas of the country, such as in San Francisco, most all the agents do this coming soon marketing idea. They have the listing agreement signed, then they get the house ready for sale, staged and all that, then they announce an open house for the day or soon thereafter that the listing gets put in the mls, and they sell a lot of homes in this manner. It is a great marketing idea and there is no ethics violation in doing so. Coming soon... raises the anticipation and as long as there is a listing agreement signed, there is no fraud going on or deceptive advertising.
This is also done in Manhattan where there is NO MLS! How do you think these agents sell their listings and non listings? Eileen Hsu- where are you to explain this process in Manhattan! :) Katerina
Jim,
With your recent blog came a torrent of responses, of which I am amazed by the delusions. Pocket Listings were the topic. After reading through all posts I was taken back by the sheer number of brokers and agents who seem to have forgotten their place. First and foremost is the client, not the MLS. I am a member of the NWMLS and as such abide by the rules therein. But it seems to me that all but a few have lost their Independence or the ability to think of themselves as the sole representative of the seller or buyer, or both, depending on agency relationship. None of you received your license so that you could represent the MLS. You were not licensed to represent the MLS. The MLS was created for the people not the other way around. The MLS is a tool, and a good one that should be used. "When" used it should be done so in the way that you have agreed to do so. If a broker both lists and sells a property he/she receives the amount of commission that was agreed to...that is not called double dipping. The term double dipping stems from people skimming profits that they have no right to. Why would one who professes to be a professional use such loose terms?
Stewart Penn said it short and sweet and right on!
I have yet to see anyone explain how it can be to the sellers best interest to choose to pocket list rather than using the MLS.
As a pocket listing the home is exposed to the "listing" agent's marketing sphere. Period. That is what- a few dozen, a few hundred, even if you assume they are a mega-super-marketing-monster agent we are only talking about a few thousand eyes and in most cases far less.
Listed in the MLS it is exposed to the (however many) thousands of agents who are members and any of their potential buyers as well as every buyer (currently represented by an agent or not) who is using the internet to search via any and all websites who are getting feeds from the MLS- potentially hundreds of thousands of opportunities to be viewed. Most MLS systems and many agents have feeds to Realtor, Google, Yahoo, Trulia, Zillow, as well as feeds to numerous IDX sites.
Is there a reason it is in the seller (the agent's client whose interest the agent is supposed to be protecting and supporting) best interest to expose a property to less buyers? To tell less people about it? To provide less information to help develop a buyer's interest?
I can see how it can help the agent get both sides- I don't see how that benefits the client-
Even if there is a variable (reduced) commission for the agent getting both sides I am not sure how the agent can represent that they got the best net to the client if they did not expose it to the widest pool of potential buyers. Does a 1 or 2 percent commission reduction offset the potentially higher sales price? How does the agent know that?
I have had agents suggest that buyers get excited about the opportunity to bid on the house before it is available to the public but I still don't see how a few buyers wanting to get a deal by buying early are going to offer the seller more than a lot of buyers in an open market. By design those "early access" buyers are looking for a deal~ although it may shorten the market time (or may not actually), couldn't it potentially decrease the price?
I can imagine very few scenarios where a pocket listing makes sense. Perhaps the property is so expensive that there are only a handful of potential buyers in the world- they could be contacted one at a time? Perhaps the seller isn't interested in getting top dollar for their home (an unusual client I would think) and instead wants to . . . help the agent? find a deserving buyer to sell to at a reduced price?
I haven't had either of those clients. Most of the sellers I have talked to have wanted to sell for the most money, as quickly as possible. We may talk about other issues but it certainly seems to me that when all is said and done, most clients want as much money as possible and they want it quickly.
At any rate, the point is that I have yet to see anyone explain how it is their client's interest to pocket list.
Perhaps I have just missed something?
Yes in California you may opt out of MLS. Over my 30 years in the business I have had several instances where it was in the sellers best interest to act on a offer that came along during the pre-marketing stage, office tour. Each situation is different and is is all about ethics and doing what is best for the client. We will always have the unethical agents whether it is in MLS or not, unfortunately. Please make sure that you turn in any unethical behavior in to your local board, it will help to stop it.
If a listing is predicated on a promise of an MLS inclusion as of a future date and the vendor is ok with the sign in the yard early that says "Coming Soon" what business is it of any other Realtor, Board or Government? This is just good old fashioned marketing.
OK a pocket listing and COMING SOON are not mutually exclusive! Here is a good example of Coming Soon as a marketing strategy, There is a major neighborhood event coming up... like the Inman Park Festival, only the home is in the process of being ready to come to market. The listing agreement is signed but not effective till a week or so later... See GAR form, so the coming soon is for the sole benefit of the SELLER!!! He gets exposure and attention he would otherwise miss. If an agent is going to get an unrepresented buyer they will with or without a Coming Soon.
It is a highly effective marketing strategy that is a win/win. The purpose has nothing to do with getting one up on other agents, or self serving.
Give agents a break and think, a bit deeper... do you really think with the huge listing volume, and days on market that there are listings so hot that agents would be sand bagging! Really, I know the Atlanta market very well and I have not seen that inventory!
This is a Buyer's market... this subject is so out of touch, I really don't get it. Sometimes I think that people dig really deep to find something to say. There is so much negative in the economy, real estate industry and finance, we should hear more reports of the Hero's that are self sacrificing for their clients. There really is far more good than bad!
Great subject Jim but it's clear that equating pocket listings with unethical behavior has drawn both support and ire from some of the respondents. I'm not suprised because the perceptions on what is unethical does not equal what is illegal. The old timers of real estate who literally carried the pocket listings are more likely to continue the practice than some of us newbies who are more tuned in to new technologies. I can remember making a mistake in real estate ethics before attending the training and got slammed pretty hard by the listing agent. I've learned a lot of lessons since then and is a strong proponent of practicing good ethics...regardless of whether are cemented in real estate law.
These are hard times for agents and as someone here said quite well, real estate agents have gotten a bad name over the past few years in the face of mortgage fraud and predatory lending. My opinion is that we should all conduct ourselves as professionals which means guiding our clients on the right things to do if they don't know what we know - and to treat each other as professionals in the field. Sure, some of us can debate the details of good ethics in real estate when it means more dollars in our pockets, but in time such self centered attitudes will catch up with us. Come on y'all - we're not stupid here. We know the laws, the ethics and the RIGHT THING TO DO. I say let your conscience be your guide according to the territory you serve.
I handle a lot of REO listings and we are required to put Warning No Tresspassing signs in the window with my contact information and Real Estate affiliation is reauired on anything. ITs not to "pre-sell" but bto be just that a contact just in case anything is needed. Ihave ahd police call me, utilities company's and neighbors. It is greatly helpful incase of an emergency. (water pipes busted, vandals,etc) This No Tresspassing sign is for the protection of the property. Full real Estate signed prior to listing is in violation of our mls.
I know you can delay entry (maybe to make some repairs, or clean up the house) of the listing into MLS with the exclusion form, but instead of excluding the listing entirely wouldn't it be just as easy for the listing agent to put showing instrucitons "please contact listing agent".
I don't recall a disclosure about market exposure, but a clients whose property is not placed on MLS should probably need to sign one (or at the very least be advised of the situation).
Do we really need a set of rules & regulations to tell us what is "ethical"? Come on people!
Unethical! That what it is! It should be monitored more and owners should be educated about "pocket listings". The property has not tested the market.
1. Were I work, 40% of the listings have been sold out of MLS during the very active year of 2007. Most of them obviously said to have been sold as private????? I don't think clients and vendors are that aware of the value of a property if they don't have the help of an agent.
2. The agent is doing a double duty for one out of MLS. This way of selling out of MLS is unfair to fellow agents who are working normally. It has opened, for years already, the doors to an underground market in real estate, mostly because of the competition act whereas agents selling that way, have the possibilities do to whatever they want with their commission, the way they want, and under and above the table commisisions are the incentive for the agents working that way.
3. I have had the opportunity to sollicit expired listings for years as soon as they were out the system. Some of the owners keep saying that they don't want to sell anymore, to call them another time, etc... all kind of excuses inspired by the listing agent, not to have any competion. What is happening there, is that the agent who had the property previously, promisses "pocket purchasors" which they are sure of. Then, the trick is, that the vendors keep saying after the deal is done, that someone has knocked at his door, it was daughter's friend, I met the neighbor while I was walking the dog outside, they put a tiny for sale privately for a couple of days and when you call it is obviously already sold, they put an ad in the newspaper for few times and already it is sold when you call, etc..... This is going on for years. I have been greatly as well as all the real estate business penalized by this kind of unthical behaviour.
I find that the Governments, be it in Canada or the United States, have to find a way to give an incentive to vendors when the commission is declared......., that they have to be educated about the importance of testing the market value whereas a good product can bring more when it is under competition by many purchasors, that when a sale is done by the listing agent, be it that the listing agent reduces his commission by one per cent when he sells, the vendor is disadvantaged as he knows what the vendors want from previous discussions, and that is the way it goes.
I have had aggravations about this subject, in particular, because the source of listings is expiried ones, sollicitation. And I do have more to say about this problem but I am glad it is coming from elsewhere than me, as I am stigmatized when I find loopholes in real estate and there are.
The real estate business has to shapen up...... to allow a fair share for everybody, and not for "the smarters", the non ethical ones, who always have a way to get around to get that "listing".
To Gerad - regarding listing agents holding aside offers from other agents so theirs are presents and accepted first. Thia happens in my area as well - paticular firms/ agents are well know for this behavior. If I am offering on one of their properties I request to make the presentation myself, they are there as well, but doing it this way insures that the seller is actually being presented the offer.. This is allowed in my state and local board.
How about this? When a listing agent receives multiple offers on his listing (one of those offers being from one of HIS BUYERS), and miraculously, the Sellers don't counter any of the other offers (which, by the way, my Buyer's offer was FULL PRICE, no seller concessions, 20% down, fully approved loan) and they accept the one from the listing agent's buyer! Do you think my Buyers were a little upset? Do you think I was?! The listing agent's response was simply, "Sometimes it happens." Yes, Nevada is a dual agency state, but part of "agency" is offering fair and unbiased advice to the Sellers. Which should have been to counter all reasonable offers with "This is a multiple offer situation. Please submit your highest and best offer by 6:00 pm on _____, __, 2009" This would be in the best interest of the Sellers and may have netted them more $$$. Nudging the Sellers to accept his buyer's offer without countering others is unfair and unethical!!!
This is a common problem in Lee County Florida. The banks are directing the listing agent "to be" to go ahead and place a sign on the property and start pre-marketing the property while they work to come up with the asking price. A friend and I researched this and could find nothing showing it is against the law or even unethical as our rules require the listing agent to follow their clients directions regarding placement of signs. I find this unfair as the listing agent gets calls from the sign and already has a list of interested parties to call once the bank establishes a listing price. This usually results in the property having offers coming in before the listing agent even loads the property in MLS. Again, not fair but I have not been able to find anything to stop it.
Absolutely ok to have a pocket listing in NC from my understanding.Mls listing not mandatory and Realtors need to understand this.Yes,you need a listing agreement but a pocket listing is fair and NOT unethical.I mean think about it-this is an agreement between agent and seller.Tons of MLS listings are available for Realtors.The topic is fair game to be debated on the question of strategy of a pocket listing but to say it is unethical is absurd and has no basis in reality.Why would you want to stop it?
What really concerns me the most is when REO agents put up a for sale sign and do what they call "pre marketing". Or even more deceptive, when they place a small "offical" looking sign on the windows directing the public to call an 800 number. Those leads are then "given" or sold to an individual working in the same office.
If a private homeowner signs a listing agreement stating that the listing broker has a certain time frame before submitting the listing to the MLS that is one thing. However, when public institutions (many that have accepted public bailout funds) offer up properties to the same brokers over and over and those brokers are monopolizing the market by "marketing" to a select few I believe that this is behavior that smacks of unfair trade practices.
These brokers are double ending many of these transactions and the average buyer feels they must use the listing brokerage in order to even get their offer looked at. These practices are bordering deceptive, discriminatory and certainly are unfair trade practices. I can't believe our industry is standing still for all of this.
A couple of things---
I started in real estate in 1980 and have seen this ever since then. In fact, I remember seminars given in the early 80sby some 'gurus' who taught about pocket listings and withholding them, lol.
If the property is listed to be put into the MLS but is not within the TOS timeframe, the agent should be accountable. The MLS agreement should point the requirement out in bold letters to any seller and it should be required as a disclosure. On the other hand Im not aware of any local or state organization that says one cant have an exclusive agreement to sell without placing the subject into an MLS---does anyone know of that being the case somewhere?
Here is the solution to this and many other real estate industry problems. Ready for a debate?
NO DUAL AGENCY PERIOD
I decided in 1981 after only a year in the biz that dual agency was the root of many evils. Backstabbing, holding other agents offers until you can get yours in, etc. etc. As long as the temptation of double ending commissions is there, someone will try and take advantage of it. One cant properly represent both customers/clients (those two terms DO have different meanings in different states)
Lose the dual agency and we will all need to cooperate with each other in every case.
No it is not Pocketing the listing, at least one of the agewnt that has posted got it right, most of these properties are Bank Owned and before the property is listed there is a whole process that begins with the assignment of the property prior to foreclosure a Preforeclosure BPO is done, most of the times with a drive by inspection, then when the property is foreclosed and a certificate of sale has been given to the seller, the agent verufies the status of occupancy on the property (sometimes before foreclosure they are occupied or vacant but REO agents are not allowed to go in prior to cert of sale) If Occupied an eviction or a Cash for keys is ordered if vacant a rekey is schedulled, IN THAT FIRST INSPECTION the agent in charge will put no tresspasing signs in windows, and its likely to put a for Sale Sign, but the fact is thet the listing is not signed because there is no price no nothing at this point its just an assignment which in itself is a promise to list, relationship with the asset management companies are very valuable and do not happen overnight.
Responsible REO agents will not pocket their listings, because the seller does not allow that to happen most sellers will not even answer if the property is not listed in MLX, Now if you ask me If I have seen some irresponsible behavior from many REO agents in Miami, absolutely, while in our company we wait and give everybody a chance to sell, I have seen listings that misteriously go pending before 72 hours and , that, in my world, is IMPOSSIBLE, I just caught an agent doing that in a Fannie Mae property, and have seen other lisitngs with less than 72 hours pending that does not make any sense, Many must be asking why is that not possible, well this is the reason : agent puts in MLX gets an offer, within 24 hours, then sends that offer with certain addendums to be signed by buyer another 24 hours, sends it back to asset manager he gets offer and sends to corporate approval another 24 hours so if you see a great REO listing that came to the market and didn't stay for 72 hours there is a great chance that the agent has pocket the lisitng and screw up everybody.
Now Pocketing listings was a very common practice in 2004 & 2005 and NOBODY SAID ANYTHING, even the UNEVEN splits to buyers agents was a common thing and few agents could fight it, the main reason from listing agents was that they did the work and deserved more, that the relationship with seller allowed them to do it AND NOBODY SAID ANYTHING, why is it different now ? becvause inventory of cheap houses is on the hands of REO agents that made their relations a long time ago? I really don't see the difference other than pure desperation among agents that do not have to handle a multiple offer situation and and are not getting deals for months and to make matters worse they see houses leaving the market befeore they entered eventhough there was a for sale sign.
Finally I agree with the Fact that lisitngs should not be pocketed, but IN ALL CASES, EVEN WHEN YOU ARE SELLING YOUR OWN HOUSE AND PUT YOUR REALTOR SIGN OUT. anybody with the relations with the bank must have the opportunity to put their sign at the moment of assignment BUT we must push for asset managment companies to require a minimum of 7 days on MLX before allowing the listing agent to put it in pending sale.
clearly jim crawford has torn off a scab with this one!
sue guillotte, remark #160, makes an excellent point. that public money is being directed to agencies that are permitting and, it appears, encouraging the practices is doubly offensive.
Boy all this paints a pretty picture of the industry to the public and the real estate commission. No wonder the opinion of the industry is so low almost 162 opinions on conduct and practices. I apologize Jim I deleted mine..just not comfortable adding fuel to the fire.
In our area they cannot even enforce the basic SQFT rules much less anything like this. Bankowned and Shorts are all a pain the rear no matter what you try to do. I'm so ready for this crap market to be over.
Unfortunately, the greatest offender in our local is a principle broker and the board just looks the other way. Numerous sales of this company are never reported to MLS so appraisers are not knowledgeable of the sale which hurts everyone.
I thing the coming are pointless anyways, you might as well have it listed and acvtive because the seller will be missing out on potential buyers
I have not seen this in my area. I know that it would be completely frowned upon! Plus, I don't see how this will benefit the seller. Just the realtor!
Jim,
We had such a listing but it was in limbo between the Bank owning it and the seller having "skipped" leaving the house full of belongings, no electric and the bank unwilling to turn on the power or even have the grass cut! I guess all areas or different but with sooo many preforclosures, i suspect many of them listings are signed by people who were told by their bank to list their home and then weeks later, that person no longr owns it!
I hear this all the time...you're right, listing agents hope they can double-side it on a quick sale.
wow never would have thought pocket listings woul dbe illegal somewhere, or announcing a house is coming on the market would be as well. I can see how the legitimate function can me manipulated by unscrupulous practitioners, but I see no reason to outlaw the practice. I do believe misusing it to your own benefit should come with a hefty price tag.
Now, I have never done a pocket listing. i would rather have my listing on the desk of as many prospects looking for such a house with all, well it used to be over 12,000, 6000 Realtors in my area. I believe it is volume that will create a sustainable business, not greed, unscrupulous acts, or even considering the commission. I showed a house last week, an REO. Bank was willing to pay 1% to be split if co-broked, plus a $250 mls fee, Both would be split 50:50. I do not care tho, because finding that particular client the right home is more important, in the long run, than the commission I earn on their purchase
Jim,
This has been going on for years in some of the real 'hot' communities in Northern Virginia. The listing agent keeps both sides of the transaction, promotes himself/herself as the 'neighorhood expert' for both listing and selling and ends up getting a reputation with sellers that they have a lock on the business in that neighborhood! Some buyers will even 'catch on" that to get a home without a bidding war you have to work with Agent A or Agent B...or the home will show as sold before you even know it was up for sale.
We can talk about how it is unfair to the other agents but the bottom line is that it is unfair to the home seller because they do not get real exposure to the marketplace and achieve their highest and best offers.
At least when a listing says that "all offers will be reviewed in x days" then the playing field becomes more level.
Jim, I've read many of the comments and I must chuckle at some of the insightts. However, both the Northern Virginia and Prince William Association of Realtors sell "Coming Soon" riders in the member store. It would seem they don't have a problem making the signs available as long as you don't use them :)
I'm so glad I'm not seeing this unethical behavior in my market. It's pretty rotten.
Right on, Jim! And you, too, Gale and Jim Tobin, in the DC area!
The real issue is the potential and actual harm done to consumers. With pocket listings, buyers are harmed by not getting equal access to all available listings. And sellers can be greatly harmed, financially, by having the pool of buyers restricted to some percentage of the total market. Whether that percentage is ten percent, fifty percent, or ninety percent of all buyers in the market, the odds that property will generate multiple offers and/or result in the highest possible price are reduced.
Sure, pocket listings may make for a quick or a convenient sale, making the listing agent or company look like geniuses, but it comes at a potentially huge cost to consumers. This is why the practice of pocket listings is often regulated or prohibited by state or MLS regulations.
Several years ago, I saw Allen Dalton, then the CEO of Realtor.com and now the head of RISMedia's Top5 Network, give a presentation. He said something that has since informed every choice I make when I market a property. He said that if there was a tool or a practice or a strategy that I would want to use when marketing my own home, then I absolutely owe it to my clients to use the same tool, practice, or strategy for them. Otherwise, I'd be hypocritical, lazy, and/or cheap. And he's absolutely correct.
So, for anyone who thinks that pocket listings are acceptable, would you allow your own home to be exposed to only a fraction of potential buyers when it comes time for you to sell? Or would you want 100 percent of all homebuyers---your office's buyers and all your competitors' buyers as well as all other local, regional, national, and international buyers---to know your home is for sale and to have an opportunity to see it, fall in love with it, make an offer on it, and, hopefully, compete for it?
If you wouldn't do it for yourself, you shouldn't do it for your clients.
Bill Kuhlman, CRS, green
GRI, ABR, CBR, ASR, C-CREC, SRES, RECS
Broker/Owner
Kuhlman Residential Real Estate
2007-2008 President of the Board of Directors for
The Massachusetts Association of Buyer Agents
2010 President-Elect of the Board of Directors for
The Mass. Chapter, Council of Residential Specialists (CRS)
781 444-1399 (phone) (fax) 781 343-4077
www.BostonAreaHomesOnline.com
Client Stats, January '08 Through First Quarter '09:
Sellers
Percentage of Current List Price Received 98.0%
Percentage of Original List Price Received 98.0%
Avg. Buyer Down Payment 37.0%
Closed on Time 100.0%
Avg. Days on Market before Offer Accepted 22.5 days
Buyers
Percentage of Current List Price Paid 95.7%
Percentage of Original List Price Paid 85.4%
Closed on Time 100.0%
My experience is that most brokers could care less. It is more money for them if their agents sells the properties themselves. In fact we have a local broker who get's a lot of bank owned properties to market. He puts his agents names on the listing and those properties hit the MLS one day and is listed as a pending (in house sale) the next. When an agent I know complained to the broker about this, since she is looking for a buyer of hers in this particular area of South Jersey, he screamed at her and said he is not in the business of making money for her and hung up.
I have to laugh, and NOT because it's funny...after reading this blog this morining and saving it for another read later I just got this in an email from another Realtor in Miami :
Check Out Our Latest REO Inventory
Including Pre-Listings! (click here)
What is a Pre-Listing?
A pre-listing is a bank-owned property that it is not yet available on the market for sale, but will be usually within 30 days from the pre-listing announcement.
Now I wonder, I am a LONG way from Miami and I haven't yet clicked on their link to see if they actually have home in my area - 3 counties and about 3 hours drive away, but I would bet there is since I was included in their email blast. It also makes me mad when they list homes they never even see much less know anything about.
I also have put in multiple offers for a client and NEVER heard back from the other Broker and then see it sold at a LOWER price than my clients offer! Who sold it..yes, the Sellinig office! I even stayed on the phone for over 45 minutes demanding to talk to the Broker who just HAPPENED to be the listing agent as well and never got anywhere but the house showed up later, sold by her. WHY is this being allowed to happen? HOW CAN IT BE STOPPED? This is not just one office doing this either!
I have to laugh, and NOT because it's funny...after reading this blog this morining and saving it for another read later I just got this in an email from another Realtor in Miami :
Check Out Our Latest REO Inventory
Including Pre-Listings! (click here)
What is a Pre-Listing?
A pre-listing is a bank-owned property that it is not yet available on the market for sale, but will be usually within 30 days from the pre-listing announcement.
Now I wonder, I am a LONG way from Miami and I haven't yet clicked on their link to see if they actually have home in my area - 3 counties and about 3 hours drive away, but I would bet there is since I was included in their email blast. It also makes me mad when they list homes they never even see much less know anything about.
I also have put in multiple offers for a client and NEVER heard back from the other Broker and then see it sold at a LOWER price than my clients offer! Who sold it..yes, the Sellinig office! I even stayed on the phone for over 45 minutes demanding to talk to the Broker who just HAPPENED to be the listing agent as well and never got anywhere but the house showed up later, sold by her. WHY is this being allowed to happen? HOW CAN IT BE STOPPED? This is not just one office doing this either!
Well Jim, look what you started! a simple little blog that took a life of it's very own! After about 80-90 comments read, I stopped, bottom line for me is that in order to get the maximun amount of money for the client-seller, the property must be exposed to the entire market, not only to those in the office. Unfortunately in our business the opportunities to do wrong abound. Before putting a sign that reads "coming Soon" here in the east shores of the San Francisco bay, we must have a letter from the seller filled with the MLS board, I don't agree with that and don't use that trick but it is an attempt to make sure the Realtor is doing his job properly. Good post!
Antonio
I believe that the agencies governing the realtors need to STEP UP TO THE PLATE TO ENSURE EVERYONE IS PLAYING BY THE RULES. Clearly, this is NOT happening and changes need to be made quickly. I'm not a realtor (I'm a lender) and I'm getting tired of hearing the public's general opinion of us (realtors and lenders) as "scum" Remember all the jokes about used car salesman and lawyers? - we'll, you can be sure that realtors and lenders are now in that same category.
I know there's alot of good, hard working, ethical realtors and lenders out there.....propbably alot of them are right here on Active Rain, however, we all need to get rid of the "bad" realtors and lenders that are creating the problems. You wouldn't believe the documented illegal and unethical "b.s." I have on some repeat offenders and the California DRE (Dept of Real Estate) is so backlogged you literally can't get anything done!
Gerard Ladalardo, CMPS
www.caloanpros.com
Jim:
There is a large Broker here that advertises on click ads that you will see listing on their site that can be found no where else. I went to the site and it was their corporate IDX, with the same data listings as everyone else. Just more deception.
Richard
I agree with you completely and I thought that it was changed in most areas. One thing I did want to mention was the Fannie & Freddie foreclosure list they send you 'preselling' their impending homes. Like you say 'coming soon' but they do mention the assigned brokers name. It's not in the MLS though as you say. I was wondering about that and your post made me just think about it. I'm going to check our board, thanks.
Wow...I am totally amazed at all the comments here. I am sorry but due to the large number of responses....I cannot answer each on individually as I normally do. But I would like to share a follow up to one story. One of the agents that I mentioned that had a "Coming soon" sign did not get the listing. I saw the listing finally post, and it was clearly not her listing.
The "pocket listings' I've mentioned are really not the REO variety. These are agents that think they are creative.
I guess the rules are different in every area. I'm sure it happens in an unethical manner frequently. However, many of my clients would prefer to only pay me as the listing agent and not cooperate with a buyers agent. Hence, the property would not be allowed in my area MLS. Any sign would indicate that the listing was private.
We must attempt to satisfy our customers wants. Sometimes we have to be resourceful in so doing.
Great post!
Deanna Williams (Tarheel Realty II) Thanks. I am glad you enjoyed it.
In marin, our MLS requires to fax a signed request from the sellers stating that he/she want the property to either not go on MLS at all or delay going on MLS for a certain number of days. The agreement has to be fxied into MLS within 72 hours of signing the listing agreement. Pocket listing is not encouraged.
In marin, our MLS requires to fax a signed request from the sellers stating that he/she want the property to either not go on MLS at all or delay going on MLS for a certain number of days. The agreement has to be fxied into MLS within 72 hours of signing the listing agreement. Pocket listing is not encouraged.
Thank you for your input. I may be guilty and didn't know it. My customer told me he wanted to take the listing off the market for the summer. He said I could continue to show it as long as the sign was down and it was off the mls. Is that a violarion?
Kieran
Naturally I'll check with my broker.
Sylvia Barry, Marin Realtor, MAS, ePRO (Frank Howard Allen Realtors (#1 in Marin)) As long as it is allowed that is fine. I just think it really defeats the purpose of a MLS system. Either every home is available to sell to fellow members or why have an MLS?
kieran loughman I would check with yor broker.
"understanding that all participating brokers will place all their listings into the MLS systems"
if and only if there is an ACTUAL active signed listing contract
Michael without a signed listing agreement it would be my understanding in most states that it would be illegal.
Most of the time I have the paperwork ready well in advance of actually putting it on FMLS because of things the homeowner still has to accomplish--in that case, I see nothing wrong with "previewing" the property in that case...
Jim,
I like your approach.
In Toronto, if it's on MLS, then it's available to be shown.
However, you can also delay the start date.
So far, that hasn't caused too much of a problem.
However, if you had a buyer, this really could be an issue. Some commercial brokerages take significant advantage of this to the point of "abuse".
I think if you said that properties couldn't be listed on MLS by a broker if:
1) you had an exclusive listing of the property within the last 30 days, or
2) you showed the property within the last 30 days.
Effectively, that would eliminate (to some extent) the 5 day pocket listing.
The vendor would want to know why the property is not on the MLS. You could always cover off a day or two, but 30 days would take a very "convincing" explanation.
Also, the vendor should have the right not to be stuck. What do you mean I have to wait for 30 days? I'll list it with someone else, and it's on MLS asap.
Brian Madigan
Kirsten Realtor Conover Certified Relocation Specialist (Prudential Georgia Realty) As long as you comply with your MLS rules I have not problem. Many MLS have agreements that if you have a signed agreement, it must be placed in the MLS system within "X" hours. I have my clients do all work in the home first, then sign off on the listing agreement. I can still sell a home in record time via the Internet. If agents are deceptive on working around the rules...they serve no ones interests but their own. It is an unfair advantage.
Brian Madigan LL.B. (Royal LePage Innovators Realty) I find the biggest mistake home owners can make when selling their home is not to have all the work finished first. If they place it on active and then say "Do not show"...it is extremely counterproductive. Anyone with any experience in real estate knows the best offer will come within the first 2-3 weeks. After that it is old news!
Our MLS is the same...if the listing is entered as active... it must be available to be shown.
Jim, thanks for bringing this to the discussion board! I have to tell you, here in CA, specifically in my Counties, this is a real problem - and no one wants to do anything about it! We have a HUGE shortage of homes so the agents market them for a week or so before putting in the MLS OR put it in the MLS saying repairs, no showings until XX date - and loe and behold, XX date comes and the home is pending/sold before processing. It is infuriating! It is done ALL the time with the REOs as well - yet my AM's tell me that they WILL NOT accept an offer until it has been IN THE MLS for FIVE DAYS! In fact, when I would get sign calls (we have to put up signs, put info in the windows, etc) I would not only refer them to ANOTHER AGENT, but would refuse to accept offers until the day the bank gave me authorization to list! WOW! I guess I am too ethical (and subsequently poor) for my own good.................
What I dont understand is how these agents get away with this with their REO listings; my AMs prefer that I do not represent both sides (which is legal in CA, but I will NOT do it), AND they demand proof that it is in the MLS! I just had an REO my client wanted come on - when I called the agent he said they werent taking offers until it went on the MLS, but it went on as PENDING - when I called and complained he said the bank gave him the buyer! What a load of BALONEY! He said the bank had offers from when it was a short sale - well, one of those offers was from my buyer, call cash, and happened to be the highest offer at the time. I know this isnt true.................yet their GREED is costing us clients. What I dont understand is that they are already getting a paycheck - spread the wealth my friends!
What I would also like to address is WHY some of these banks choose the WORST agents in the community, many with ZERO experience to handle their REOs - but I guess that's a discussion for another night.
Jerry dragoon I agree. Without a listing agreement they are.
Suzanne Grace You brought up a very interesting point about some REO agents. I recently had put a call into a REO agent, and it was obvious she has never sold a home home in her life. She balked at a 320K offer and the home eventually sold for 260K a few n=months later. When I asked her if she had ever sold a home (because she was that bad) she commented "I am a foreclosure specialist!" In my books that is a crock! You cannot call yourself a specialists if you never sold a home!
Jim,
I am afraid you pre-judged every situation when you put it in the Title, that this is unethical. It may be or it may be not. Like every other thing in Real Estate and in life in general, it depends.
Real Estate is bigger than MLS, and it is not up to MLS rules to govern it. It governs only what is going into MLS, and not everything does and not everything has to.
This is an important instrument, but this is not more than that. The agent's relationship is between the broker and the Principal, not between the broker and other brokers, so whether they get a fair chance or not is not an issue.
Wow. This must have hit a hot button. You got LOTS of reponses! I've never seen a sign like this, but I think I would call the broker if I did!
In response to Michael Ford #138:
It is perfectly legal and ethical to have a listing agreement and the house excluded from the MLS for several reasons. Health and environmental hazards (to clean up) and possible occupant (REO) that is unwilling to show the house. You can put a "write offer subject to interior inspection" in the MLS but we all know that the less bodies one gets IN the house will garner less of a price.
There are several other reasons to exclude a listing from the MLS prior to showings. If we throw everything in there "subject to interior inspection" or "no offers accepted till :insert date here:" it will "age" the listing and it's audience will forget or lose interest.
This is JUST a strategic way to generate the most interest in the property. If done properly it isn't illegal, unethical or immoral. Double ending a pocket always gets my eyebrows up in the air but not all pocket listings are double ended if they are used CORRECTLY. Double ending and unfairness can happen even when the listing is in the MLS.
This is definitely an old school tactic and old school is being used today, in the age of internet savvy consumers. We have to :gasp: go out there and build relationships and our reputation within our agent communities. We cannot rely solely on the MLS for an information source for our clients.
I think what it really boils down to is this: every state/county has differing rules and even then there is such a grey area, all parties may be correct! I remember when I took the exam, the questions could have had multiple correct answers, depending on the situation - but alas, according to the CA DRE, only one was the RIGHT answer.
So, with that said - wouldnt it be better if everyone used their common sense and moral compass? I think so. When this happens, we will ALL have a shot at selling the property rather than those few greedy individuals stock piling for themselves.
Another great issue was raised on a previous comment that I would love to address as well! What is very true is that the seller, whether a bank or an individual, does NOT get the benefit of multiple offers nor does the seller get the benefit of choosing the best buyer.............the greedy agent is not doing anyone any favors, most of all their own customer. Now that is unethical.....................
I think what it really boils down to is this: every state/county has differing rules and even then there is such a grey area, all parties may be correct! I remember when I took the exam, the questions could have had multiple correct answers, depending on the situation - but alas, according to the CA DRE, only one was the RIGHT answer.
So, with that said - wouldnt it be better if everyone used their common sense and moral compass? I think so. When this happens, we will ALL have a shot at selling the property rather than those few greedy individuals stock piling for themselves.
Another great issue was raised on a previous comment that I would love to address as well! What is very true is that the seller, whether a bank or an individual, does NOT get the benefit of multiple offers nor does the seller get the benefit of choosing the best buyer.............the greedy agent is not doing anyone any favors, most of all their own customer. Now that is unethical.....................
Jon Zolsky (FunCoast Realty LLC) It is not bigger than the law by which states we are licensed in. The example I mentioned in the beginning..that agent did not have the agreement. It was listed the following day by another real estate agent in another company. It was a gamble that she could get the home sold before the sellers had to to sell. When I called her, she did not know the first thing about real estate. She pushed off a sale because she did not know what to do or say next. In here MLS...if she had a listing agreement (Which she did not) it would have to be in the MLS within 48 hours. Not having an agreement and placing a sign on the lawn leading the public to believe you do have a listing agreement is a violation of law in most states that I am aware of, and is also deemed fraud! There are very few states that allow oral contracts in real estate these days.
Suzanne Grace A very valid point you raised...the purpose of a MLS is to provide the seller the broadest exposure to the most amount of potential buyers through other member brokers. And under which process would the seller get the highest price? One bid, or potential hundreds of bids.
Jim,
As a Licensed California Realtor for 20+ years, I have used the " Coming Soon " sign as a Marketing tool. Most recently, my elderly clients were moving into a Retirement Center. They signed the listing agrement and also a waiver giving me two weeks to prepare the home. The listing agreement and the waiver were sent to the MLS in a timely manner. It took the 2 weeks to have the painters come in and strip the wallpaper and then paint, have the carpets cleaned, the excess furniturre to be disposed of and the cleaners to make it sparkling. Then the stagers came in to do their remarkable transformation. It was then ready for showing. And No, I didn't double end it. Another member of our MLS brought in the buyer.
Peggy Deadder- Prudential California Realty- Castro Valley, California
Peggy Deadder - Thank you for sharing. I have been licensed since 79. I have all the work done on all my listings prior to even having the signed listing agreement. Paint, handymen and pre-inspections take place during this time. When all the work is done, I meet the homeowners sign the agreement and place everything on-line within the confines of that same day. I have flyers delivered the next day. So I am intrigued when anyone has the agreements signed a few weeks earlier before placing in the MLS. Grant it that different areas have their own rules.....my only question would be why?
This modus operandi used to be ever so popular here in 2005. Not anymore! Those same barracudas are no longer in business in our more capricious market.
This is now featured on the Optimist Group. Thank you!
Mirela Monte, Your Myrtle Beach Real Estate Connection So many of the ills we see in our business today are based soley upon greed.
Doesn't work in our market here either. But I can remember people trying to sell listings in house first in 2005.
Doesn't work in our market here either. But I can remember people trying to sell listings in house first in 2005.
Doesn't work in our market here either. But I can remember people trying to sell listings in house first in 2005.
Doesn't work in our market here either. But I can remember people trying to sell listings in house first in 2005.
Kathy Knight, BROKER/REALTOR, ABR, CRS, GRI (Intracoastal Realty Corp) I think that the seller gets a better price, more exposure, and will sell in less time if they are in the MLS. Many in real estate agents profess they are not doing this to double dip opportunity...so why then are they doing it?
I can have a home prepped for sale before the home is ready to go on market, and enter it all into the MLS in one day along with digital photos, a virtual tour or video. We live in the age of the Internet and high technology, not the 'Stone age!' I am no longer developing pictures at a photographer, creating a print mock up for fliers, and then waiting for a week for them to be delivered to a 200 real estate offices in my area announcing the new listing. That was the old days in real estate when Noah was my broker...and MLS listings were carved in stone tablets.
Jim. I agree. Although it is not happening as much as before...it is still taking place. I agree. It is unfair and wrong.